PO Box 4216 Here is my translation of Luke 17:22-37. As can be seen the angel in the foreground is depicted with eagles wings. (35) A good man out of the good treasure of the Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Those whom Jesus said would be left would be those who heeded the warning and fled to the mountains. In Luke 17, as you can see there is no indication whatsoever that the final separation of the saved and lost will be done in any secretive manner. Write by: . If any man hear His Word and believes (rejecting what one hears and does not receive it) not shall be judged by the Word of God that He has spoken. On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. de Lectis Veter. I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the this place: (13) For we will destroy this place, because the cry of The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? One obvious key word in our passage is "day"and "days," hmera. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. Therefore, they are not describing the rapture. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, "Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great." I believe that Luke 17 has the rapture in mind and the verse in question should read where the body is, there the eagles will gather. The word is body in Luke and corpse in Matt 24. Jesus' word picture of one aspect of the Day of the Lord is gruesome, indeed, but at some point in human history there will be a holocaust of such unimaginable scope and scale that perhaps a third--or more--of the entire population of the world will be decimated (see Revelation 6:7-8 and 9:15-18). Your's is the answer I believe most correctly describes the passage: it flies in the face of the "Left Behind" methodology, but it accurately describes the language used. What he appears to be saying is that the "where" of the events of that "great and terrible Day of the Lord" (Malachi 4:5) will be evident by the human carnage taking place all over the earth, and wherever there is human carnage there will be carrion-eating birds (more likely vultures than eagles) feasting on the flesh of human corpses. Is the Goat and Sheep judgment also the White Throne judgment? We must hear the command and ARISE (just like Lot was commanded to "ARISE" and go from Sodom) from the dead body of unbelievers and let us go from here.their churches. I was less than satisfied with the Matt. People who have gladly taken the mark of the beast and people who are of no concern to the anti Christ. What phrases give people the false idea that there will be a secret rapture? Luke 17:34-35.But the decision at the Parousia, what a separation it will be!a separation of those who are in the temporal life united in a perfectly common position. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Luke 17:34-37 ESV - 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. The words in the Olivet Discourse come after the Lord has given a chronological description of events following this Church age and lasting for the 7 years of the Tribulation, culminating in the glorious return of Christ to the earth to establish His kingdom and to reign on the throne of David. And verse 37 confirms that as well And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? Jesus was not speaking to Church-age disciples but to Old Testament saints who understood the Old Covenant but had no knowledge of the New Covenant apart from what Jesus told them. for out of the abundance of the heart Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. Like the lightning that flashes in the sky, these phenomena in the heavens "illuminate" the Day of the Lord when the spiritually dead are judged on earth. Antichrist will be slain with his False Prophet and they will be given their resurrection bodies and cast alive into the lake of fire. For a more complete explanation, please see Judgment of the Nations, also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment. one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. Because Jesus Christ is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world (John 1:29-34) by dying upon the cross, being buried and rising again as He promised (Matthew 16:21-23, 17:22-23; Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32; Luke 9:21-22, 18:31-34), we now possess through Him the hope and reality of our own resurrection. judged. These two signs will occur at the same time and will send an unmistakable message to 144,000 Jewish men who will instantly turn to Jesus Christ. presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: The short answer is that in the narratives of Matt 24, Lk 21, and Mk 13, Jesus is speaking of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the armies of Rome. Those 'left behind' therefore, are those who will be 'caught up' with the Lord; not as a 'dead carcase' but as a living body. Our aim is to share the Word and be true to it. Luke 17 - Duty, Thankfulness and the Kingdom A. Forgiveness, faith and duty. Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? Revelation 19:17-18 KJV (17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; 28 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Big difference. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 KJV (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that When you get a chance, please take the. Then thereafter, everything said, points to 'features of *rapture, simple. In one case those left are judged and in the other case those left are blessed! A non-profit, 501(c)3 corporation. And he said unto shalt be condemned. After He has defeated the nations of the world who attempted to annihilate Israel, He will judge everyone who survived Armageddon. I was pleased to see the CEB use the word "disciple" to refer to the mysterious young man who appears in Mark 14:51-52, after the 12 disciples desert Jesus and run away. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Jesus stresses the Necessity for watchfulness-, to keep ready, Jesus explains. Revelation 19:17-21. What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant? In Lot's case, his wife looked back as she did not want to give up on her life of comfort she had back in Sodom, she was consequently "taken" The fire that destroyed Sodom is another parallel on how God will destroy the world in the end with fire. He didnt have to. Marayong NSW 2148 Moreover, his kingdom will be without end. Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? The reference to "one shall be taken and one left" is a reference to Zechariah's prediction that half of the people of Jerusalem would be taken away from Jerusalem as captives: [Zec 14:1-2 KJV] 1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. @Charlie I appreciate your research in finding a similar question; I searched it, but originally didn't see the Luke text, although the Matthew records almost the same discussion. They are not still future. It only takes a minute to sign up. Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. We are to leave it all behind (all of their church thoughts and ways) and take nothing of them with us so that we follow the Lord in His footsteps and suffer without the camp by the keeping of His sacrifice as they will persecute us for leaving them. And Noah and Lot are used as examples of those left behind and surviving destruction; Noah survived the flood but everyone else was destroyed and Lot survived the fiery brimstone but everyone else was destroyed. Other scriptures could be added such as John 14:3 which clearly refers to the Rapture though, at the time, Jesus ministry was confined to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6). O Atomic Heart recebeu crticas "geralmente favorveis" para a verso para Windows, enquanto as verses para Xbox Series X/S e PlayStation 5 receberam crticas "mistas ou mdias", de acordo com o agregador de anlises Metacritic. If so this might help explain the 1.1 million non-combatants killed in the judgment that fell around 70ad and why Revelation refers to the Jews hiding in the rocks of the hills, wishing that they had died in the war. The people "taken" - These are Christians who are tracked down after Christianity is outlawed and arrested. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? They will not be unequally yoked together with the unbelievers in their churches. heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil In this respect, if we continue to compare Luke with Matthew, the ones "taken" (Matt 24:40-41, NASB) are similar to those "taken" at the flood of Noah (Matt 24:39, NASB). Some understand it to mean that the Son of Man will inevitably appear just as eagles inevitably show up where there is carrion. We are not to return evil for their evil that will come out of their mouths as we leave their company. The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. together. Luke 17:34 (NIV). Jesus second illustration in verse 35 is about two people who will be grinding at a mill. Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Revelation 14:10 KJV (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17:2830). son in law, and thy sons, and thy there shall be two men in one bed; this is said agreeably to the time, the night before mentioned, that being the time to be in bed, at rest and asleep; for they that sleep, sleep in the night; and still suggests the security the people of the Jews would be in, at the time of their destruction. The words taken and left have a literal meaning. The "brightness of His presence" = the keeping of His sacrifice (the Lamb) in our lives in the persecution by not returning evil for their evil. That is, Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19 also appear to be parallel as apparent eschatological events of predictive prophecy, since both chapters also mention the birds of prey devouring those judged on earth at that time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. For more on the secret rapture: Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. We all agree on that point. Revelation 19:21 KJV (21) And the remnant were slain with the sword 1 Jesus said to His disciples, "Stumbling blocks [temptations and traps set to lure one to sin] are sure to come, but woe (judgment is coming) to him through whom they come! The message is destruction. For more information about this event, we must read Matthew 25:31-46. 17:37 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU), 37 Each Book adds a little more detail to the questions His Disciples asked of Jesus about His coming Kingdom "when . ERROR: CREATE MATERIALIZED VIEW WITH DATA cannot be executed from a function, Doubling the cube, field extensions and minimal polynoms. Luke 17:35 (NASB) Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. The New International Version (NIV) has avoided the word men and so translates the passage with people. Here is the verse, I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. of Man is revealed. Whereas the eagles in Matthew 24:28 gather around carcases, the eagles in Luke 17:37 gather around living bodies. *. Who is the one left? Their very own words will eat the flesh of those who will (in unbelief) resist what the Spirit says in this coming time in the Day of Judgment. They can rise to 10,000 feet almost out of sight. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17). It is so important for us today to make known the truth of the Rapture to the Jewish people. Luke 17:34-36 Some use Luke 17:34-36 to teach the secret rapture belief but to understand the complete picture of this passage, we need to read the verses before and after. and hath nothing in me.*. 38 For as in those Their own words will come back upon them to destroy them. The passage here in Luke 17 in many ways parallels that of Matthew 24. Resurrection Accounts Resurrection of Christ, Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me . When Luke 17:34 says, "one will be taken and the other left," the words "one" and "other" are both masculine. And they said Is Matthew 24:30-31 about the rapture or second coming. If we also go away from them, then the Comforter shall come unto us. Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). Now if we are to interpret this passage to mean that one is taken and judged but the other is left to be blessed in the kingdom then we have to attribute the very opposite meaning to the words! We are to also not look behind to return evil for their evil that will certainly come out of their mouths as one leaves the churches of the unbelievers. wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his So, to answer the question: "Who are taken, and who are left behind, and how are we to understand Luke 17:37?" All Sermons Bible Studies Devotionals Prayers. (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. It can be just as you wrote or the elect in the wilderness Rev 12:6, Ez 20:35 eagles being angels. in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this But that does not in itself mean that Jesus did not speak about the Rapture of the Church. the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, Remember Lots wife. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. " Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. They would be taken somewhere but Where? This will "torment" them. Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. John 14:29-31 KJV (29) And now I have told you before it come to There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. It would be true to say that the Disciples could not have understood Jesus to be referring to the Rapture but to say that Jesus was not speaking of the Rapture is just a wrong exposition. destroyed all of them 30 it will be like that on the day that the Son Nevertheless it is of the utmost importance to remember that both passages before us are addressed to Israel. The armies that follow them will likewise be slain. Thus eagles in Luke 17:37 could refer angels. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. The passage in Luke 17 appears to be parallel to Matthew 24. Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? If I can be shown to be wrong from scripture then I will be happy to be corrected. Brian Bell notes that "this is the last teaching of a long Sabbath day that started in Lk 14:1. I will not talk much with you: **for the prince of this world cometh, For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand [is] stretched out still. By our words shall we be justified and by our words shall we be condemned. pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. Then and only then will his will be done perfectly on earth as it is in heaven. heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father. Pre-Tribulation Rapture also is not true. "Remember Lot's wife. It is taken to mean that one day believers will be secretly "raptured" away and the rest will be "left behind." What's the problem here, you ask? [Jer 9:22 NKJV] 22 Speak, "Thus says the LORD: 'Even the carcasses of men shall fall as refuse on the open field, Like cuttings after the harvester, And no one shall gather [them].' In both passages Jesus is talking about the end of the age which is the 7 years of Great Tribulation immediately before Jesus comes. We must "ARISE" and go away from the company of the "dead"the unbelievers who will hear the revealed Word of Truth and will not believe in it when they do. All Videos Images Commentaries Devotionals Other Translations Sermons Related Scriptures Podcasts Blogs. Does God expect me to live with a physically abusive spouse. This means that both Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are events that will occur after the second coming of Christ. Their carcasses [were] as refuse in the midst of the streets. The words quoted in Luke 17 come after the Lord had answered the Pharisees question about the timing of the Kingdom of God. will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (11) And they smote the men that were : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. (Matthew 24:40-42). being evil, speak good things? In this passage, Jesus is referring to those who would be taken, and those who would be "Left Behind". There will be persecutions coming from the group we leave behind as they will think it strange that we no longer run with them in their church things. Luke 17:34 The believers are left and will be with Christ on the earth during the Millennium. Now when the Lord gave the Disciples this sign in Luke chapter 17 they understood that Jesus was talking about the last days and that some people would suddenly disappear but they didnt know anything about the Rapture and the logical question was asked, Where Lord? i.e. Jesus says to "flee to the mountains" in Matthew 24. Jesus said: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (Israel): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock (Jew and Gentile in the Church), and one shepherd (Christ the head of the Church) (John 10:16). If you se vultures you know where the corpses are. February 27, 2023 equitable estoppel california No Comments . The word for eagle occurs 4 times in the New Testament and always from the same Greek word. Is it referring to the Rapture? I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. All the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven are the multitude of words that will fly out of the mouths of all the unbelievers in this coming time.and it is by our words that we are justified and it is by our own words that we are condemned. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:26-30, 34-36 And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:34-37). To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. The Greek word for left is aphiemi which literally means to send and is used of a man putting away his wife in divorce (1 Corinthians 7:11-13). that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, Luke 17:35 (NASB). (32) Remember Lot's wife. doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. In addition, the goat nations who receive the mark of the Beast during the Tribulation, will be brought before the throne of Christs glory and be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left. bear them now. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it mocked unto his sons in law. righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not In verse 26, Jesus resembled the days of Noah with His second coming: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (36) Two men (8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of One will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding meal Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and He has revealed to us the" mystery of his will"(Ephesians 1:9) Learning about it can lead to salvation and can provide you with a glimpse into the Creator's unfathomable wisdom. Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke17:37). 22 He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will yearn to see one of the days of the Son of Man, . The word for the bird is generic in both accounts. them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription. (30) Hereafter . (13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he Most Popular. This is a picture* of angels that are in the process of transporting from earth newly departed peoples' souls, through the legendary dark tunnel, to the heavenly light in the far distance. 40 Then two will be in the field; one Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. Why is this the case? Vultures devour. 2) The Gospels must be interpreted as addressed to Israel and not the Church because a new dispensation of the Church had not begun at the time. If they are not still on the earth then who is doing the burying? the mouth speaketh. They will not be able to receive His words and will gnash their teeth in rage towards what they hear. In Matthew 24, when it speaks about the Tribulation, it states that: wheresoever the carcase (ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. The same statement is found in Matthew 24:28 except that the word "body" is replaced with "carcase". What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? AUSTRALIA. place; for the LORD will destroy this city. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. English Standard Version Paralambano means to receive to ones self. (34) I tell you, in The Greek word duo simply means two two of anything. A lot seems to be happening in a very short scope of time. 35 There will be two women grinding together. This answered prayer was what caused me to doubt Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and then I became convinced its impossible. Two shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And he said unto them, wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:37). mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. G105 Eagle (or vulture) Could also read; Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles. 24 answer, and I originally didn't see the Luke 17 answer on CSE. Treasury of Scripture. Therefore, we do not know if Jesus was referring to two men, two women or just two people, such as a married couple. lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. Again, these fowl in Revelation 19 are the multitude of words of the unbelievers who will not believe in the true sayings of God when the Scriptures are opened up by the Lord to our hearing ears.